I think we need to amend the FAQ/Rules page...

[Tyler]

... to include a definition of griefing. Zarvon (IIRC) posted a topic concerning the definition of griefing, and I think his definition is a good one to use.

The reason I suggest this is because I see a lot of "...I was banned for griefing, but I didn't grief anybody..." posts in the Ban Appeals forum. Apparently, there are many players who may not have a clear understanding of what griefing is, or they exercise a loophole when they say they didn't know stealing and griefing are related. So, my point is griefing can be an ambiguous term; therefore, I think we should post our definition on the FAQ/Rules page of what griefing is. That way, when crooked little retards steal some stuff, they can't use the "I didn't know" argument when we clearly state our definition of griefing. If a player still tries to argue, well, evidently he or she didn't read the rules.

[nickmcski]

... to include a definition of griefing. Zarvon (IIRC) posted a topic concerning the definition of griefing, and I think his definition is a good one to use.

The reason I suggest this is because I see a lot of "...I was banned for griefing, but I didn't grief anybody..." posts in the Ban Appeals forum. Apparently, there are many players who may not have a clear understanding of what griefing is, or they exercise a loophole when they say they didn't know stealing and griefing are related. So, my point is griefing can be an ambiguous term; therefore, I think we should post our definition on the FAQ/Rules page of what griefing is. That way, when crooked little retards steal some stuff, they can't use the "I didn't know" argument when we clearly state our definition of griefing. If a player still tries to argue, well, evidently he or she didn't read the rules.

Players should know what griefing is. and if they don't know what griefing is their is a sign saying "Don't touch other players stuff"

[Tyler]

Players should know what griefing is. and if they don't know what griefing is their is a sign saying "Don't touch other players stuff"

What players should know and what players actually know are two different things. I'm just suggesting this to make your job easier. Again, some players may not make the connection between stealing and griefing. I guess, in the future, if you ban someone, avoid confusion by stating griefing or stealing where appropriate.

Nick, you should take into consideration that some players are < 13 years old.

[nickmcski]

not many players tend to read the FAQ.

Nick, you should take into consideration that some players are < 13 years old.

thats why we have thet sign. to put it into the simplest terms.

[Zarvon]

On closer inspection, the signs at spawn are actually correct (no griefing/stealing, for instance). The problem arises when some players are banned and the message they see is "Banned for griefing", when in fact they were stealing or they don't know what griefing means.

It's a tricky and subtle problem, but at the momen I think the faq/rules and the signs at spawn are, in fact, correct.

[Tyler]

That's why I said this.

I guess, in the future, if you ban someone, avoid confusion by stating griefing or stealing where appropriate.

Edit:

What I was trying to suggest is defining stealing as a form of griefing to avoid confusion in the future. As it is, our rules state no stealing OR griefing when we tend to treat both the same. I just thought that if we gave a definition of grief to include stealing, and then told players not to grief, we would avoid the excessive whining that goes on in the Ban Appeals forum. That is all.

[Mr_Blobby]

Being realistic here, most of the people who don't "understand" this refuse to - They end up just making up excuses and saying BUT IT WERE NUT MEH!

Greifing and stealing go hand in hand, you can't steal someones stuff without touching it, breaking the back door down.